Mao Zedong once declared, “I am Marx plus Qin Shi Huang.” While suffering torment in hell, he longed deeply to see Karl Marx. The Jade Emperor approved his request and arranged a meeting between them.

Marx spoke bluntly at the outset: “Mr. Mao, I have heard that you call yourself ‘Marx plus Qin Shi Huang.’ On what grounds do you say this?”

Mao replied: “I believe that your doctrine, with all its complexities, ultimately boils down to one sentence: ‘Rebellion is justified.’ I specialized in rebellion; therefore, I am Marx.”

Marx burst into laughter. “Your understanding is too shallow and taken out of context. Engels and I wrote The Communist Manifesto in 1848, and at that time we did advocate violent revolution. I was thirty; Engels was twenty-eight. We were young, full of vigor and passion, our theory not yet mature, our thinking not fully developed. Yet you seized upon one phrase—‘rebellion’—and turned it into a banner. In fact, China has had peasant uprisings since ancient times, rich with experience. Why would you need to pluck a single sentence from my book and make it your flag?”

Mao answered: “Your phrase was fresh and fiery, and with Lenin in Russia applying it in practice, it became powerful proof. Bringing that sentence to China made it easy to stir up the masses. I used that one line to fan the flames and build my cause.”

Marx responded: “Lenin and Stalin did indeed ‘apply’ it—but they too used it only for their own purposes, taking one of my phrases as a banner. They hardly acted in accordance with my full theory. Moreover, after several decades, their efforts failed, which shows that their rebellion was unjustified and was eliminated by history. You became their student and carried it further in China, and you too failed—proving that your rebellion was unjustified. You even passed it on to your student Hun Sen, and Cambodia’s failure was even more disastrous.”

Mao said: “Although tens of millions died in China, that does not mean failure. My successors have inherited my will and continue my theory of class struggle. The dictatorship of the proletariat and the leadership of the Communist Party remain written into the Constitution. How can you say it failed?”

Marx replied: “My theory of the dictatorship of the proletariat was distorted by you. I regarded it as a means; Lenin regarded it as an end. The notion that proletarian dictatorship is itself the ultimate goal was never my intention. What you inherited was Lenin’s mantle, not my theory. As a result, you carried out large-scale class struggle in China, and in peacetime tens of millions perished. You should reflect carefully and confess your crimes, rather than glossing them over. Nor should you quote me out of context. Do you know what my homeland says? ‘We have two Marxes: the young, violent Marx, taken away by the Russians, who exploded; and the older, liberal-democratic Marx, taken by Western Europe, who blossomed and bore fruit.’ What you took from Russia was the even more violent Lenin—and the explosion was even more catastrophic.”

Mao responded: “Elder Marx, you know that for decades I placed the tall hat of ‘great, glorious, and correct’ upon the Chinese Communist Party. It is difficult to remove it now. How could I admit fault and confess guilt before the people?”

Marx said: “You are indeed inferior even to feudal emperors. I know that Chinese emperors traditionally issued ‘self-reproach edicts,’ acknowledging their faults.”

Mao answered: “I promoted Marxism precisely to break with tradition.”

Marx replied: “You are entirely mistaken. Tradition is the crystallization of the experience and wisdom of countless people across generations. Tradition is precious and must not be discarded. You should draw lessons from experience and step out of the dead end of ‘great, glorious, and correct.’”

Mao said: “I still have a magic formula: ‘the integration of Marxism-Leninism with Chinese practice.’ It allows for flexible application.”

Marx responded: “I understand your so-called ‘Sinicization.’ In reality, it means ‘for my own use.’ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, you interpret and elaborate as you please, acting according to your own will. The banner says Marx and Lenin; the content is yours—what you call ‘Mao Thought.’”

Mao said: “Even now my successors continue to rule China under your banner and mine. That shows ‘Mao Thought’ still works.”

Marx answered: “China should ‘advance with the times.’ Your Confucius said twenty-five hundred years ago, ‘A sage is one who responds to the times’—meaning one must keep pace with the times to be a sage. I am no sage; and even if I were, I belonged to one hundred fifty years ago. Society today is vastly different. Only by studying contemporary social development and advancing with the times can one become a sage of the present age.”

Mao said: “Elder Marx, your words are concise and penetrating. To see you today is a lesson for a lifetime. I will surely convey your words to my successors, urging them to repent, benefit China, and make amends for their past wrongs.”

Having received Marx’s candid guidance, Mao rose, took his leave, and bid farewell to the elder Marx.

NEXT: 2. Qin Shi Huang (259–210 BCE)