Chapter 89 Lushan Conference gave up Chen Boda 1970

Journalist: “So you won’t be the President of the country, and you don’t want Lin Biao to be either?”

Mao: “Yes, regarding the issue in 1970 about not having a President of the country, I argued with Lin Biao. I didn’t want to be the President anymore. Being the President meant wearing formal attire and meeting foreign diplomats in the Great Hall of the People. I was used to working in my residence wearing a robe, surrounded by women, holding small meetings, and seeing whoever I wanted while being comfortable in my robe. So, I said there shouldn’t be a President of the country. I also didn’t want Lin Biao to be that President. I didn’t want there to be two Presidents side by side, like Liu Shaoqi. I wanted to be the only President. But Lin Biao insisted on having a President of the country. It couldn’t be said that if I don’t take the position, it should be abandoned. In essence, he wanted to be the President, and I didn’t want him to be. It was a personal power struggle between him and me. If he didn’t submit to me, I would suppress him, suppress him until he fled. The contradiction was fully exposed.”

Journalist: “Whether to have a President of the country is a significant matter?”

Mao: “Yes, during the meeting in Mount Lu in 1970, we discussed whether to have a President of the country. I insisted on amending the constitution to eliminate the position. I wouldn’t take it, and having someone else be the President was like adding fuel to the fire. I also told Lin Biao not to take it. He was so weak and frail, could he handle being in the fire? I secretly instructed the internal security agents to gather intelligence on Lin Biao’s group’s movements. I wouldn’t let Lin Biao become the President, and I even intended to promote Zhang Chunqiao as the Vice President. They were extremely dissatisfied. Lin Biao proposed Dong Biwu and Song Qingling as Vice Presidents and still wanted me to work hard as the President. As soon as Lin Biao finished speaking, I became irritated and said to adjourn the meeting.

I had a conversation with Lin Biao. I told him that there shouldn’t be a President of the country. I said it six times. You can consider each of my words as equal to ten thousand words. So, six times would be sixty thousand words. If not even one word is effective, it’s like six farts, which equals zero. I see you are too anxious. You want to be the President. I’m 77 years old, and you’re only 64. What’s the hurry?’ Lin Biao retorted, ‘I’m not anxious, but someone else is.’ I slammed the tea table and asked, ‘Who is in a hurry? Name names!’ Lin Biao fell silent. I said, ‘Your wings have grown strong, but I still won’t take the position. What can you do with me?’ Lin had no choice but to say, ‘I agree. I won’t bring it up again.’

Kang Sheng didn’t know the details and also tried to persuade me. When I talked to him about being on the wrong side, he trembled all over, and his knees went weak as if he wanted to kneel. I immediately stopped him, saying, “Kang Sheng, don’t kneel. I knelt once in Yan’an in 1937, and that’s enough.

This time, I only criticized Chen Boda by name during the meeting, and when I returned to Beijing, I organized the handling of the matter.
Lin Biao had already become aware of it. Half of his guards, secretaries, and internal staff, totaling dozens of people, were placed there by me to provide me with information about Lin Biao’s movements. He was under my control.

Journalist: “So you want Jiang Qing and Zhang Chunqiao to be Vice Presidents?”

Mao: “Yes, in 1970, I told Lin Biao face to face, ‘I’m considering adding 1-2 Vice Presidents within the party to share the workload with you. You are the military aspect, without the cultural aspect. Think about the young intellectuals, who would be suitable?’ In my mind, it was Zhang Chunqiao and Jiang Qing. This way, we can dilute Lin Biao’s power and check him.’ Lin Biao remained silent upon hearing this. Later, I also requested Ye Qun to stay behind to swim with me. He said in front of me, ‘I’ll stay, I’ll stay,’ but deep down, he must have been gritting his teeth at me.”

Journalist: “Jiang Qing and Zhang Chunqiao were having an affair, and you turned a blind eye?”

Mao: “I had already heard reports about Jiang Qing and Zhang Chunqiao being too close. They danced intimately, and Jiang Qing had a hysterectomy. We were already politically married. Zhang’s wife used to be a Trotskyist, and they were separated. He was alone in Beijing. Jiang Qing is only two years older than him, and they are suitable in age. They can openly be together after I die, but now they can’t be too hasty.”

Journalist: “On Mount Lu, why did you abandon Chen Boda?”

Mao: “By abandoning Chen Boda, I intended to warn Lin Biao. I sensed that Lin Biao was disloyal to me. As early as the evening of March 2, 1970, I invited Lin Biao to the study room in Zhongnanhai and talked for nearly three hours. The next day, I told Zhang Yaoqi that my close comrade had given me a lecture, saying that the Cultural Revolution should be declared over and that the situation everywhere was not good. It felt like empty cannon shots. I couldn’t figure out what my close comrade was thinking. I was very dissatisfied with Lin Biao’s pessimistic view of the Cultural Revolution. I sensed that he had his own ideas about the Cultural Revolution, which meant he was dissatisfied with my approach. In short, I sensed his disloyalty to me.”

Journalist: “You targeted Chen Boda to target Lin Biao?”

Mao: “Yes, I dealt with Chen Boda first and then depending on the situation, I would deal with others, isolating Lin Biao. Later, I would support Jiang Qing and Zhang Chunqiao to take the stage. The Lushan Conference hadn’t ended yet when Lin Ligu suddenly descended the mountain. I was wary that he might suddenly fly a plane to bomb my beautiful villa, so I immediately secretly moved to another villa.

I planned to handle Chen Boda and others about a year later and then, perhaps, elect Zhang Chunqiao and Jiang Qing as Vice Presidents, or restore Zhu De, Chen Yun, and others to their Vice-Presidential positions. With 6-7 Vice Presidents, we could dilute the influence of Lin Biao.”

Journalist: “So during the Lushan Conference, why did you abandon Chen Boda? What was the spark?”

Mao: “During the Lushan Conference in August-September 1970, I cast away Chen Boda, and the spark was on Zhang Chunqiao.

On April 25, 1970, I took Zhang Chunqiao to Suzhou to meet Lin Biao. I usually don’t go without a reason when I personally visit Suzhou. There must be something important, and I brought Zhang along. I asked Lin Biao, ‘I’m getting old, and your health isn’t good either. Who do you plan to pass the baton to in the future?’ Lin Biao didn’t answer. After a while, he brought up the topic of preventing revisionism in the name of combating it. He said, ‘We still have to rely on people like Huang, Wu, Li, Qiu, those who have been revolutionaries with the Chairman since childhood, to prevent the petty bourgeoisie from taking power.’ When he mentioned the petty bourgeoisie, he was indirectly referring to Zhang Chunqiao. Originally, I wanted Zhang Chunqiao to be Lin Biao’s successor, but Lin Biao and Zhang Chunqiao couldn’t get along.”

Journalist: “Oh, so you wanted to promote Zhang Chunqiao, but Lin Biao opposed you?”

Mao: “Yes, on July 31, 1970, Wu Faxian had Lin Biao’s son, Lin Ligu, deliver a 7-hour lecture on Mao’s works at the Air Force Headquarters. Wu, who was chubby, praised Lin Ligu as a great genius and a talent for the overall situation. Lin Biao was very pleased. I found out and became extremely unhappy. I told Jiang Qing, Kang Sheng, and Zhang Chunqiao, ‘I’m not dead yet, but Lin Biao, with his poor health, is a bit impatient to prepare his own successor. He rejects my plan of designating Zhang Chunqiao as his successor. It shows that his intentions are not aligned with mine.”

Journalist: “I can see that Lin Biao wants to pass on his position to his son?”

Mao: “Yes, on August 23, 1970, the 2nd Plenary Session of the 9th Central Committee opened in Lushan. There were 255 attendees. Prior to the meeting, I realized that there was intense hidden struggle between the Cultural Revolution faction and the Military Commission faction. I warned them not to turn the meeting into a split. One of the debated issues was whether to establish the position of the President. I was tired of being the President, but they insisted on me holding the position. I suggested amending the constitution and abolishing the position of President. The meeting reached a boiling point when Lin Biao made a speech addressing the issue of amending the constitution without directly criticizing Zhang Chunqiao. He spoke in a way that he had discussed with me and that I agreed upon. However, when I saw everyone enthusiastically applauding his speech, I didn’t join in the applause. I felt gloomy and unhappy, and I didn’t feel like eating after the meeting.

The argument between Zhang Chunqiao and Wu Faxian happened on August 13, 1970, when Kang Sheng chaired the discussion on amending the constitution. Zhang Chunqiao said, ‘Some people constantly talk about upholding Marxism-Leninism and everywhere they pile up Mao Zedong Thought. They always say genius, comprehensiveness, and creativity in developing Marxism-Leninism, even including Khrushchev.’ Wu Faxian questioned, ‘Are you sarcastically referring to Lin Biao? Are you using Chairman Mao’s modesty to belittle Mao Zedong Thought?’ Chen Boda was present and heard their heated argument.”

Journalist: “Oh, Wu Faxian and Zhang Chunqiao argued, showing different attitudes toward Lin Biao?”

Mao: “Yes, it was Lin Biao who first bestowed upon me these three labels: ‘genius, comprehensiveness, and creativity.’ It was in Lin Biao’s speech in May 1966. When we amended the party constitution in October 1968, I had already crossed out these three labels. Zhang Chunqiao was well-informed, but Wu Faxian and others were ignorant and proudly defended Lin Biao’s invention.

My consistent strategy is to let them argue freely until it becomes irreconcilable, and then I step in to clean up.”

Journalist: “Lin Biao gave you praise, but now you no longer want it, does that indicate a change in your attitude towards Lin Biao?”

Mao: “Yes, on August 24, 1970, during the discussion of the North China group, Wang Dongxing and Chen Boda expressed strong support for Lin Biao’s speech, speaking in a high tone and with great enthusiasm.

On August 25, the East China group, influenced by the North China group, raised the tone even higher and openly criticized Zhang Chunqiao. Chen Liyun, the Political Commissar of the Airborne 5th Army, stood up and exclaimed loudly to Zhang Chunqiao, ‘Why don’t you speak up for yourself?’ A reserve Central Committee member of the Navy in Zhejiang took the lead in shouting slogans, ‘Down with the ambitious, down with the conspirators!’”

Journalist: “The military strongly opposes Zhang Chunqiao?”

Mao: “Yes, on August 25, Jiang Qing came to me with the North China group report, accompanied by Zhang Chunqiao, and urgently said, ‘Something serious is happening, we need to capture some people!’

At 3 p.m. on August 25, I held an expanded meeting of the Standing Committee, where I instructed to stop discussing Lin Biao’s speech, retrieve the North China group report, and ordered Chen Boda and others to investigate. On the 26th, it was announced that the meeting would be adjourned, and we went to Mount Lu and watched a movie.

On August 27, 1970, Zhou Enlai and Kang Sheng went to Lin Biao’s place. Kang Sheng said, ‘The main culprits this time are three: Wu Faxian spreading rumors, Wang Dongxing instigating, and Chen Boda causing trouble. Chen Yi also jumped out.’”

Journalist: “The nicknames ‘Eyeglasses Snake’ and ‘Three Drops of Water’ were given to Zhang Chunqiao and Jiang Qing by Lin Biao’s faction, right?”

Mao: “Yes, during the immortal meeting at Mount Lu in 1970, Lin Biao’s faction had already realized that I intended to promote Zhang Chunqiao as the Party Vice Chairman, and they were all opposed to it. Xu Shiyou even said that he didn’t recognize the ‘four-eyed dog.’ They called Zhang Chunqiao and Jiang Qing ‘Eyeglasses Snake’ and ‘Three Drops of Water.’ They claimed that I emphasized unity just to suppress the opposition against Zhang, who wears glasses.”

Journalist: “Did you instruct Kang Sheng to give Lin Biao a warning?”

Mao: “Yes, on August 31, 1970, I decided to target Chen Boda. I deliberately wrote comments on the quotations about genius from Marxist-Leninist works compiled by him, saying: ‘I have worked with Chen Boda for 30 years, and we have never cooperated on important issues. During the three meetings at Mount Lu, the first time, he went to Peng Dehuai. The second time, when we discussed the 70-point plan for industry, he left the mountain, and I don’t know where he went. This time, he launched a sudden attack, instigating and spreading rumors. I cannot mix his rumors and sophistry together.’ I intentionally fabricated negative remarks about Chen Boda.

Chen Boda was thus abandoned by me. To be fair, he didn’t do anything bad. His objections to Zhang Chunqiao were no more serious than those of Wu Faxian and Wang Dongxing. In order to protect Zhang Chunqiao and show some strength to Lin Biao’s faction, I targeted the defenseless Confucian scholar. In fact, in 1948, Chen Boda saved my life in Fuping, Hebei. At that time, when the Kuomintang airplanes came to bomb, he pulled me away and the bombs accurately hit my residence.

On September 4, 1970, during the meeting, I added charges of Trotskyism, treason, espionage, and following Wang Ming to Chen Boda, but they were all baseless. The Confucian scholar was then sent to the Qin City Prison. He remained there until after my death, when he was released on bail, but he was not rehabilitated. In his oral memoirs, he continuously admitted to the charges without complaints. In reality, it was I who harmed him. I targeted him to show Lin Biao some color.”

Journalist: “You have always been like this, discarding people when they are no use as you please?”

Mao: “Yes, on September 4, I had a conversation with Lin Biao about Chen Boda and Zhang Chunqiao. He only listened to me without making any specific response. On September 6, during the closing ceremony, I noticed that Lin Biao was no longer wearing military uniform but instead wearing a Zhongshan suit. He sat silently on the podium with a pale face. I mentioned the union of the two Chens (Chen Yi and Chen Boda), and the world continued to turn.

After the meeting, Ye Qun, accompanied by Huang, Wu, Li, and Qiu, went to visit Jiang Qing. Jiang Qing put on airs and took half an hour to come out wearing pajamas, saying, ‘You fell for Chen Boda’s trap.’ When Ye Qun and the others came out, they all exclaimed together, ‘A performer, a performer, how fucking pathetic.’

Journalist: “Both Ye Qun and Jiang Qing were just putting on a show, following the instructions of the master, Lin Biao and you?”

Mao: “Yes, on September 7, Huang, Wu, Li, and Qiu went to the Jiujiang Airport to bid farewell to Lin Biao and took a group photo. Lin Biao said, ‘Don’t do anything guilty, don’t fear ghosts knocking at the door, eat as usual, at most, it’s like the second Peng Dehuai. If there is anything, report to the Premier.’”

Journalist: “Wang Dongxing and Jiang Qing didn’t get along?”

Mao: “Yes, Wang Dongxing turned against us at Mount Lu. He was dissatisfied with Jiang Qing and sided with Lin Biao’s faction. I removed him from the leadership of the security regiment. He admitted his mistake, and Lin Biao’s group allowed him to confess and seek forgiveness. Otherwise, I would have sent him to Xinjiang and Tibet, rendering him useless. Indeed, Wang and Jiang Qing had unresolved conflicts. Wang resented her, calling her names and expressing his desire to stab her vagina with a gun, saying this behind my back. Wang went to arrest them, but that is a story for later.

Jiang Qing wanted me to get rid of Wang Dongxing and transfer him to Tibet, letting Wang Enyi take his place. I said Wang is currently the vice (head of security), and Wang and I serve as mutual checks and balances. If I promote Wang and remove him, who will restrain Wang? Do you want to fulfill your Empress Wu dream? Jiang Qing said that Wang holds a long-standing grudge against her, and with Lin Biao’s support, he is very dangerous! I said that the main responsibility for the conflict between Wang and Jiang lies with Jiang. I scolded Wang as the Director of Flattery, the second eunuch. I want to balance everyone, including Jiang Qing and Zhang Chunqiao. I also arranged for many people to keep an eye on Wang. What actions can he take?

I cannot allow the First Lady to monopolize power. Wang Dongxing came to see me, and as soon as he entered, he knelt down. I smiled and asked him to rise, saying, ‘Lin Biao doesn’t want you, but I do. Just push all the blame onto Chen Boda.’ I began the ‘criticism and rectification’ campaign, openly criticizing Chen but indirectly referring to Lin Biao. Chen Boda is just a dog, and I’m showing the dog owner how to deal with dogs.

Before leaving Mount Lu, Jiang Qing helped me ‘stabilize’ the deputy marshal. She took the initiative to ask Ye Qun to take a series of photos of Lin Biao reading my works. Lin Biao knew that I was skillfully maneuvering and also cooperated by holding Mao’s works with both hands and posing for the photos. Lin Biao even forcefully pulled Jiang Qing and asked Ye Qun to take a photo together. Politics is like acting. However, behind Lin Biao’s back, he said, ‘I don’t know when they will expose me and capture me all at once.’ He also said, ‘I, Lin Biao, am not as easily dealt with as Liu and Deng.’”

Journalist: “Lin Biao felt helpless and unwilling in his heart?”

Mao: “Yes, after the Lushan Conference, I had been waiting for Lin Biao to reflect, but he remained silent. From the publicly released Lushan Conference communique, it seemed like everything was positive. It appeared as if nothing had happened. On December 18, 1970, I met with American journalist Edgar Snow in Beijing and said, ‘The Four Greats that invite criticism, formalism, need to be reduced.’ On May 31, 1971, after my approval, the recorded conversation was transmitted to grassroots party members. When they heard it, they naturally thought of Lin Biao, the inventor of the Four Greats.”

Journalist: “By discarding the Four Greats invented by Lin Biao, does it also mean that you are discarding Lin Biao?”

Mao: “Yes, in June 1971, I said that all the records in the Great Hall of the People should be taken down. If they were not taken down, I would never enter the Great Hall of the People again, strongly expressing my dissatisfaction with Lin Biao. Around 1966, Lin Biao bestowed upon me the Four Greats and three ‘genius, comprehensive, creative’ high hats, elevating the deification and worship of me to its peak. His contribution was significant. However, by 1968, I discovered that Lin Biao was cold towards me. The Four Greats he invented, along with the three high hats, were a means to cater to my preferences, insincere and used solely as a political weapon. When it came to the issue of Zhang Chunqiao, I found that he and I had different intentions. Therefore, I openly rejected his inventions and implied rejecting him as well.”

Journalist: “Sensitive people can perceive it. You were looking for faults with Lin Biao everywhere?”

Mao: “Yes, everyone saw that Lin Biao always had the quotations from the Four Greats in his hands, but in reality, it was Li Wenpu, the head of the security department, who did the work. During mass gatherings, when the crowd chanted slogans, Li would hand over the quotations to Lin Biao and let him raise them and wave them. Once the slogans stopped, the quotations would return to Li’s hands. Lin Biao said that one of his words was worth ten thousand of mine, but in his private diary, he wrote, ‘He worships himself, indulges in self-superstition, takes credit for himself, and blames others for his faults. His usual tactic is to first fabricate a ‘difference of opinion’ from you, and then he criticizes your opinion.’ Lin Biao’s strategy was, ‘Do not give advice, do not criticize, do not report bad news. Respond quickly to every new initiative he proposes, obey without expressing different opinions. Do not tell lies and fail to accomplish significant things.’”

Journalist: “Lin Biao’s diary exposed the differences between him and you?”

Mao: “Yes, I had already sensed it.”

Journalist: “Did Lin Biao have his own way of doing things?”

Mao: “Yes, just like me, Lin Biao had a group of people at Mausoleum like Mao’s Family in Maojiawan. He had secretaries, administrators, service staff, medical personnel, and others, totaling around 60-70 people. In addition, there was a security squadron of over 200 people stationed nearby. His living room had his calligraphy hanging on the wall, with phrases like ‘The great voyage relies on the helmsman’ and ‘In the vast sea of affairs, self-restraint and rituals are paramount.’ He was good at thinking about major matters, using schemes, inviting criticism from scholars, and while he couldn’t engage with women due to his poor health, he turned a blind eye to others’ promiscuity and even recommended the best-quality condoms there.

His core subordinates were fiercely loyal and kneeled before him to show loyalty. The generals under Lin Biao all knew that sooner or later, I would support Jiang Qing to take over, with Zhang Chunqiao as the military advisor. While I was alive, everyone went along with her, but I’m afraid they wouldn’t if I died. Lin Liguo even used my name and boasted about the four milestones of Marxism: the Paris Commune as the first, the October Revolution as the second, the Yan’an Rectification as the third, and the Cultural Revolution as the fourth. Who knows, maybe there will be a fifth milestone in the future. Let’s watch their performance.”

Journalist: “Was Lin Biao’s absence from the meetings a protest against your wearing of a pyjamas to meet people?”

Mao: “Since 1962, Lin Biao was dissatisfied. I would hold Politburo meetings in my bedroom, wearing a pyjamas and half-lying on the bed, while the Politburo members sat around the bed. He claimed illness and never attended the meetings. He couldn’t tolerate my way of doing things. His self-esteem was particularly strong, saying that even the emperors of the past would wake up before dawn, dress neatly, and listen to reports in the court.”

Journalist: “You and Lin Biao each had your own command headquarters? What about Zhou Enlai?”

Mao: “There were two command headquarters, one in the north and one in the south. Zhou Enlai straddled both sides, acting as the intermediary. Sometimes he would be in Hangzhou, sometimes in Beijing, and sometimes in Suzhou (Lin Biao’s base). When Lin Biao requested Zhou to invite him out of Suzhou, I had to comply. I had Luo Ruiqing removed not because I wanted to, but otherwise Lin Biao wouldn’t go to Tiananmen Square.

Zhou made achievements for me. Daqing and Dazhai were both discovered during his inspections. We learned from Daqing for industry and from Dazhai for agriculture. I never visited Daqing or Dazhai. It was most important for me to control military power.”

Journalist: “Did Zhou Enlai hold the spittoon for you? Were you really naked?”

Mao: “Yes, when I coughed up phlegm, Zhou Enlai quickly held up the spittoon with both hands and then handed me a small towel to wipe my mouth. Jiang Qing couldn’t even do that; she would just summon a servant. Zhang Chunqiao followed Zhou’s example and also held the spittoon for me. Not to mention lighting cigarettes.

Kang Sheng once saw me lying in bed, exposing my two thighs without wearing underwear, which was unsightly. He quickly pulled over a corner of the towel blanket and covered me up.
I played hooligan politics, displaying hooligan behaviors. I truly went naked into meeting environment, conducting political affairs while also taking care of personal matters.”

Journalist: “The Politburo Standing Committee has no power? Who do you want to have power in order to have power?”

Mao: “Yes, the Politburo Standing Committee never votes on anything. I have the power of veto, the final decision-making power. Therefore, there is no need for voting. If I want someone to have power, even if they are not a member of the Standing Committee, they have power. If I don’t want someone to have power, it’s pointless for them to become a vice chairman. That foolish woman (referring to Jiang Qing) led the way in clamoring to have Lin Biao’s successor status written into the party constitution. If I don’t agree in my heart, it counts for nothing.”

Journalist: “Do you hold Politburo meetings in front of the bed?”

Mao: “Yes, I’m accustomed to holding Politburo meetings. I wear a robe and recline on the bed at an angle. Several Standing Committee members sit in chairs in a circular arrangement in front of my bed. There is a security squadron guarding the meeting. I don’t hold meetings without a certain level of assurance of success.”

Journalist: “What is your motto?”

Mao: “My motto is ‘To struggle with others brings endless joy; when the guns roar, there are millions of gold.’ What I fear the most is the mention of the death toll of tens of millions during the three years of famine. That is my taboo, and everyone knows that no one dares to mention it in front of me again.”