Chapter 54 Conspiracy to launch the Cultural Revolution 1965

Journalist: “You were about to take action against Liu Shaoqi, right?”

Mao: “Yes, in China, in January 1965, Liu Shaoqi was reelected as the State President during the National People’s Congress. There was a grand celebration parade in Beijing, with portraits of Mao, Liu, and others. Some even wanted to hang Liu’s portrait on Tiananmen Square. I knew that within the party and among the masses, his prestige overshadowed mine, so I had to take action.”

Journalist: “What action did you take?”

Mao: “On April 22, 1965, I met with Lin Biao in Wuhan and revealed to him my plan to overthrow Liu.

On May 19, 1965, during a meeting of the Military Commission, Lin Biao criticized Liu’s speech and took a different stance.

In May, I revisited Jinggangshan, demonstrating my soaring ambition and wrote poetry to rally support for launching the Cultural Revolution. I said, ‘Long have I aspired to reach the clouds, and now I can grasp the moon in the ninth heaven.’ I wanted to ascend to the highest peak of power and make everyone bow down and obey. I spent 7 days secluded in the mountains, blocking transportation and isolating myself from the world, all for the purpose of launching an offensive and propagating the cause.”

Journalist: “Ke Qingshi was one of your top generals, how did he suddenly die in August 1965?”

Mao: “Yes! I suspect that Liu Shaoqi and the others have done something to harm him, I got Kang Sheng to ask him what happened, but he couldn’t tell me what happened, so I had to leave it at that. It is likely that he went to Chengdu from Shanghai, hot and tired, and played too much with young nurses at night, and really died of a heart attack.”

Journalist: “Why did you let Ke Qingshi go to Chengdu alone? Wasn’t he the first secretary of East China to manage East China, Shanghai?”

Mao: Yes, he was in charge of East China, but I was concerned about the situation in Sichuan, as it could potentially become a power base for Liu and Deng. If both Beijing and the Southwest region were under their control, it would be even more difficult for me to shake their influence. So I sent Ke Qingshi to Chengdu to assess the situation, do some work there. Unexpectedly, it turned out to be a major setback for me, like losing an arm.

Journalist: The preparations for the ‘9th Congress’ were already underway in 1965. Did you veto it?

Mao: “Yes, it was decided in 1965 to hold the ‘9th congress”‘ of the Party and the Fourth National People’s Congress. The two conferences had been preparing for half a year, and personnel arrangements were almost finalized. It was awaiting my final approval. The ‘9th congress”‘ was supposed to be held in October. However, at that time, I was preparing to launch the Cultural Revolution, and holding the ‘9th congress”‘ would not be favorable for me in that regard. Although the conference had been postponed multiple times, originally it should have been held in 1962, according to the Party Constitution, which states that a national congress should be held every five years starting from the 8th Congress in 1956. It should have been held in 1961, but due to the Great Famine, it was delayed until 1962, and then further pushed to 1963 and 1964. I was firm in not giving in. By the spring of 1965, I had no more excuses to delay, so I reluctantly agreed to the preparations. Liu and Deng got my consent, and they actively started working on the preparations. Delegates were also selected, waiting for my final approval of the conference date. By mid-September, I used the excuse of numerous urgent domestic and international matters (though there weren’t actually any pressing issues that needed to be addressed) and the unclear situation. I proposed conducting investigations and studies and suggested postponing the conference until the following spring. If everyone insisted on the original proposal, I would not attend. And so, with a sudden directive, I vetoed the two conferences that had been preparing for six months.”

Journalist: “Why do you veto it?

Mao: “I always have my own goals when calling for meetings. If a meeting doesn’t serve my objectives, I won’t hold it. I wanted the ‘9th Congress’ to be conducive to my launch of the Cultural Revolution. However, at that time, my plan for the Cultural Revolution was not yet fully developed and prepared. Opening the 9th Congress would actually benefit Liu and Deng, strengthening their power. I reluctantly agreed to the preparations to deal with them temporarily, giving them false hope for a while. But in the end, I vetoed it and refused to attend. They had no choice but to accept it, wasting their time while I suffered no loss. By suppressing the ‘9th Congress,’ I continued to plan my Cultural Revolution, which I had already drafted. Liu and Deng remained clueless, unaware of what I had in store.

I remained calm and kept Liu and Deng from getting suspicious. To prevent any doubts from arising, I needed to stabilize Liu Shaoqi first.

Journalist: Did you plan to launch the Cultural Revolution in 1965?

Mao: Yes, in 1965, I encouraged the failed armed seizure of power by Aidit in Indonesia. The Indonesian Communist Party was completely annihilated, and they brutally massacred 500,000 people. By promoting an armed coup in Indonesia, I also wanted to prevent any dissatisfaction from within the country’s military generals towards me. In 1959, I removed Peng Dehuai from power. Although he was still farming in the Western Hills of Beijing, I didn’t trust him being close to me as he could potentially cause trouble. Before launching the Cultural Revolution in 1965, I sent Peng to work on the Third Front in Sichuan to eliminate the threat I felt. Liu Shaoqi, Deng Xiaoping, and Peng Zhen formed their headquarters in Beijing, so I had to go to Shanghai and bring Lin Biao, who was sick, out to establish a new headquarters. I allowed Jiang Qing to collaborate with Lin Biao and prepared for literary discussions and critiques of “Hai Rui Dismissed from Office” as ammunition.

In November 1965, I gave the order to strike first and let Jiang Qing’s Shanghai headquarters take the initiative, releasing Yao Wenyuan’s critique of ‘Hai Rui Dismissed from Office’ and opening the prelude to the Cultural Revolution. In December 1965, at the Central Shanghai Meeting, I lured Luo Ruiqing into a trap and subsequently removed Yang Shangkun from his position as the head of the General Office, transferring him to Guangdong. At the same time, I conspired with Lin Biao to deploy the military to gradually gain control over Beijing, making Liu Shaoqi and his associates like trapped turtles in a jar. With the military in my hands, I could capture them whenever I wanted. The fatal weakness of Liu, Deng, and Peng’s headquarters was their lack of unity, courage, and a spirit of solidarity, which ultimately led to their downfall.”

Journalist: “You boarded Jinggang Mountain propaganda to build momentum, what other actions?”

Mao: “In September 1965, I sent Peng Dehuai to Sichuan, so that I can be quiet in Beijing. Peng Dehuai is already a dead dog, the future focus is Liu Shaoqi, to Peng moderate some, or paralyze others. I was also afraid that the army generals would fornicate with him in Beijing and affect my deployment of the Cultural Revolution.”
Journalist: “Did you send Peng Dehuai to the southwest before launching the Cultural Revolution?”

Mao: Yes. Before launching the Cultural Revolution, apart from redeploying loyal troops to guard Beijing, I had to get rid of the ‘dead tiger’ Peng Dehuai, whom I couldn’t trust. He was residing in the Western Hills of Beijing, too close to me. I was worried that his subordinates in the military might conspire with him during the chaos of the Cultural Revolution. I couldn’t rest easy with him being so near. So I sent him to the Southwest and gave him the title of Deputy Director. In September, before his departure, I made a show of inviting him to Zhongnanhai for a farewell dinner.

In October 1965, I also transferred Yang Shangkun out of the Central leadership and sent him to Guangdong. Yang was close to Liu Shaoqi and knew Russian, which made me particularly wary of him having connections with foreign countries. I replaced him with Wang Dongxing, who I trusted and was loyal to me. With these preparations in place, the launch of the Cultural Revolution was essentially ready.

The Journalist: “Oh, you transferred Peng Dehuai and Yang Shangkun away, and brought in loyalist Wang Dongxing?”

Mao: Yes, on the other hand, I gave Jiang Qing a task to go to Shanghai and find people to criticize the play ‘Hai Rui Dismissed from Office’ and expose those who were supportive of Peng Dehuai. Just after New Year’s Day in 1965, Jiang Qing took a special train to Shanghai and met with Ke Qingshi, Zhang Chunqiao, and Yao Wenyuan, with Yao taking the lead in writing the criticism.”

Journalist: “During the Cultural Revolution, you pushed Jiang Qing to the forefront, with you as the banner and your wife as the flag bearer?”

Mao: “Yes, in February 1966, Jiang Qing and Lin Biao organized a discussion on literature and art, which was very successful. With this, Jiang Qing became the flag bearer of the Cultural Revolution, and I was the banner while my wife was the flag bearer.”

Journalist: “Did you specifically send Jiang Qing to Shanghai for activities?”

Mao: “Yes. Advocating the spirit of Hai Rui was something I initially proposed at the Central Conference in Shanghai in April 1959. My hidden purpose was to fish out the big fish, to see who would dare to criticize the emperor like Hai Rui did. I was hoping that Zhou Enlai would step forward and criticize the failures of the Great Leap Forward so that I could catch the big fish and suppress the black wind against me. Later, Hu Qiaomu found Wu Han in Beijing and encouraged him to write. Wu Han wrote “Hai Rui Scolds the Emperor,” which was published in the People’s Daily in June 1959. In September, it was adapted into a historical drama called “Hai Rui Dismissed from Office” and performed in Peking opera style.

After Yao Wenyuan secretly finished the draft, I reviewed it three times without the knowledge of other Standing Committee members. On November 10, 1965, it was published in Shanghai. During my visit to Shanghai, I specifically met with Yao Wenyuan.”

Journalist: “Oh, so criticizing ‘Hai Rui Dismissed from Office’ was a way for you to fish for reactions? To see who would take the bait?”

Mao: “Yes, Peng Zhen in Beijing, without any clear explanation, withheld the publication of Yao Wenyuan’s criticism of ‘Hai Rui Dismissed from Office” and protected Wu Han for two weeks. It was only when I called from Shanghai and instructed Zhou Enlai to immediately publish it that Peng Zhen reluctantly arranged for its publication.

On November 28, 1965, Peng Zhen met Jiang Qing in the stairwell of the Great Hall in Beijing, and he went up to greet him: Comrade Jiang Qing, you are back from Shanghai. Jiang Qing said provocatively, ‘If you want to return, you can return, if you want to go, do you need your approval?’

Peng Zhen: ‘Are you here to attend the meeting?’

Jiang Qing: ‘You never inform me about your meetings, how can I dare to attend your meetings, Mayor?’

Peng Zhen: ‘You shouldn’t say it like that. If you have any grievances against me, you can directly express them. There’s no need to beat around the bush. We are already familiar with each other. Should I still guess riddles?’

Jiang Qing: ‘You used to be quite humble. I’ve heard from others that you have absolute control over Beijing, almost like an independent kingdom. I advise you to restrain yourself a bit and not go too far.’

Peng Zhen: Comrade Jiang Qing, I don’t know what province you are speaking to me today. If you are a comrade, put your attitude on an equal footing; if you have appointed yourself as a leader, I advise you to know yourself first. Beijing is the world of the people, as long as I am still the mayor for one day, I will not allow anyone to bully our comrades wantonly.

Jiang Qing: Good, you said it well. As for in what capacity I am talking to you, you will know in the future. “

Journalist: “Haha, you let Jiang Qing out, Peng Zhen is still in the dark?”

Mao: “Yes. Jiang Qing did not tell me that I had appointed her as the deputy head of the newly established Central Cultural Revolution Group in Hangzhou. This conversation between Jiang Qing and Peng Zhen is a good indication of their personalities.

Peng Zhen dared to say in front of me that Jiang Qing is not right, that she is very leftist, and imposes her ideas on others. He also claimed to have investigated and found that Wu Han has no issues and is a leftist. I even asked about the connection between Wu Han and Peng Dehuai. As a result, Peng Dehuai specifically went to Chengdu to ask Peng Dehuai, who said he didn’t know Wu Han and had no contact with him at all.”

Journalist: “Peng Zhen sounds very serious, he does not know your secret scheme?”

Mao: “Yes, he is still confused. November 26, 1965, Jiang Qing called on Luo Ruiqing in Shanghai and asked him to hold a literary symposium in the army. Luo said it was unnecessary for the troops to engage in literary and artistic rectification, and the focus was on improving artistry. Jiang Qing also said he wanted to wear a uniform, but Luo said he could, but he could not give the collar and cap badge, you do not have military status. Jiang Qing was not happy and left. I learned about this and knew that Luo was not a resourceful person who turned the rudder with the wind. Luo flunked, offended Jiang Qing, is offended me.”

Journalist: “Ha ha, Luo Ruiqing also can not keep up with you?”

Mao: “Yes, on December 1, 1965, Ye Qun came to Hangzhou to see me and talked for five hours, accusing Luo Ruiqing. After hearing the report, I told Wang Dongxing to take her back to Suzhou that night on a special train and pick up Lin Biao on the return trip. I told Lin Biao to get a good grip on the army, and that I was going to fall on Liu and Peng Zhen, but Lin Biao insisted that Luo Ruiqing must be solved first, so I had to give in, otherwise he would have excused himself from the Cultural Revolution. I hope he supports the Cultural Revolution and speaks as he did at the 7,000-person conference, explaining the necessity of the Cultural Revolution.”

Journalist: “You are sacrificing Luo Ruiqing and catering to Lin Biao?”

Mao: “Yes. From December 8 to 15, 1965, the expanded Politburo meeting was held at the Jinjiang Hotel in Shanghai with 38 people in attendance, and I had Lin Biao preside instead of the usual Liu Shaoqi. Ye Qun unexpectedly took the stage to expose Luo Ruiqing, speaking 3 times for a total of 10 hours, with material from idle words and the late Liu Yalou, etc. Deng Xiaoping proposed to let Luo Ruiqing to the meeting confrontation, I was not allowed. Luo Ruiqing was accused of usurping the army against the party, and when the vote was taken, Liu Shaoqi, Zhu De, Chen Yun, Deng Xiaoping, Peng Zhen, and Liu Bo Cheng opposed the defeat.”

Journalist: “Did you still finally get rid of Luo Ruiqing?”

Mao: “Yes. At this time, Luo Ruiqing was in the southwest border inspection, received notice of a meeting, immediately went to Shanghai. December 11, 1965 landed in Shanghai, and was immediately placed under house arrest. He was taken back to Beijing on Dec. 17 and continued to be under house arrest. In 1971, Lin Biao fled the country, and in 1973 I said that Luo Ruiqing had made a mistake. After my death, I was reinstated as General Secretary of the military commission in 1977, and went to West Germany in 1978 to place a false leg, and died of a heart attack in West Germany.”

Journalist: “Hebei Xingtai earthquake damage, you do not care at all?”

Mao: “At March 1966, there was a 6.7 magnitude earthquake in Hebei Xingtai area, hundreds of thousands of houses collapsed, millions of people affected, more than 100,000 people killed or injured. Earthquakes are traditionally a bad omen for the country’s society, I received a phone call, only to say that the death is not much, I am listening to the Peking Opera, Zhou Enlai to condolences? Very good, very good, want me to return to Beijing? Well, the medical team does not allow it.”