Chapter 52 The Great Communist Defeat in Indonesia 1965

Journalist: “You had the atomic bomb and Khrushchev stepped down, right?”

Mao: “Yes, in October 1964, Khrushchev was ousted from power, and I said it was because he completely lacked personality cult, he deserved it. I also hoped that the new leadership in the Soviet Union would abandon Khrushchev’s line and improve relations with me. So in November, during the anniversary of the October Revolution, I sent Zhou Enlai and He Long to Moscow to offer congratulations. Unexpectedly, the Soviet Defense Minister tried to probe Zhou Enlai and suggested removing me from power, which left me unable to sleep. Fortunately, Zhou Enlai and He Long remained loyal to me and stood up against them, and they immediately reported the incident to me to demonstrate their loyalty. But since then, I have become more cautious and guarded against any collaboration between them and internal forces, especially towards Zhou Enlai.”

Journalist: “Zhou Enlai is loyal to you, is not it all right?”

Mao: “Not entirely insurance. The Soviet Union had deployed heavy troops along the Sino-Soviet and Sino-Mongolian borders, and Mongolia is very close to Beijing. If Soviet tanks were to come, they could reach Beijing in just a few days. When the Soviet Defense Minister made outrageous remarks against Zhou Enlai for the second month, I immediately instructed the construction of a massive fortress complex along the Sino-Mongolian border to resist tank invasions. However, most military experts did not believe it would be effective. Even the U.S. Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, said that artificial mountains could not stop tank attacks, as the border was too long and easily crossed. Eventually, the project was abandoned.”

Journalist: “Were you afraid of Soviet tanks coming over?”

Mao: “Yes, in reality, there was no danger. But things were not going well domestically, and I wanted to gain reputation internationally and enhance my prestige. I was preparing for the Second Afro-Asian Conference, scheduled to be held in Algeria in June 1965, which was a great opportunity. I made efforts to win over Indonesia and Egypt, offering to train atomic scientists for them and even suggesting sending troops to help Indonesia fight against Malaysia. In Africa, we actively helped Tanzania build a 2,000-kilometer railway, equivalent to the distance between Beijing and Guangzhou, at a cost of one billion U.S. dollars. Unfortunately, ten days before the conference, there was a coup in Algeria, and the Afro-Asian Conference was postponed. Later, Egypt invited the Soviet Union to participate, which would have put China in second place. I announced that I would not participate, and the Afro-Asian Conference fell through. It was a setback for me internationally, and I no longer mentioned the commitments made to Indonesia and Egypt.”

Journalist: “Oh, you wanted to take advantage of the Asia-Africa Conference to make a world revolution, but it was aborted?”

Mao: “Yes, another bigger international setback was the September 30, 1965, Indonesian crackdown on the Communist Party and the massacre of 500,000 people.”

Journalist: “In 1965, it is said that Indonesia experienced mass killings of approximately 500,000 people due to your alleged encouragement of a coup?”

Mao: “Yes, beforehand Liu Shaoqi and I had a debate, he did not agree to recklessly instigate the Indonesian Communist Party to seize power, told me not to be too hasty, to continue the legal struggle in parliament, to fight for a majority, to reach maturity to organize the government, I was disgusted with his approach, the parliamentary road, revisionism, I said, I sent a reinforced division from Hainan Island, it would help Aidit to disarm the Indonesian army, but Liu Shaoqi shook his head said: ‘our navy are just only comprised with small gunboats, which have the ability to transport a division to Indonesia?’

I argued vehemently, saying that we could use unconventional means to transport the weapons. Liu Shaoqi, however, couldn’t help but laugh and said, ‘The entire Chinese waters are within the sphere of influence of the U.S. Seventh Fleet. How can we go out to sea?’ Liu Shaoqi was speaking about the objective situation, while I only focused on the goal without considering the conditions, resorting to any means to achieve it. Although our armed forces couldn’t go, I still encouraged A to carry out the coup. The result was a complete failure, and around 500,000 people were massacred by the Indonesian army. The Indonesian Communist Party disappeared completely from that point onwards. Only one member of the Politburo managed to escape the disaster in China at that time.”

Journalist: “The Indonesian Communist Party risked a military coup and was suppressed by the army.

Mao: “I was afraid that a Lieutenant Colonel Untung would come out of Zhongnanhai and take the guards to arrest me, I asked Kang Sheng, Xie Fuzhi and Wang Dongxing if they would be in danger. Wang Dongxing said no, the guard team equipped with guns only without bullets, basically unarmed troops, and layers of supervision, infallible, cadres and soldiers are infinitely loyal, bent on defending Chairman Mao Party Central Committee, I listened before I was assured.”

Journalist: “Indonesia’s Communist Party was killed 500,000, what does it have to do with you?”

Mao: “Since Stalin allowed me to take charge of Asian communist parties in 1950, I have been encouraging Aidit, the General Secretary of the Indonesian Communist Party, to seize power through armed struggle whenever an opportunity arises. Aidit was confident in his abilities. In June 1963, I instructed Zhou Enlai to meet with Aidit. They met in the hot springs of Conghua, Guangdong, where Ho Chi Minh and the Laotian Communist Party were also present, discussing plans for the seizure of power. In July 1965, the Asian-African Conference did not take place as planned. In August, I saw an opportunity for the Indonesian Communist Party. We sent doctors to Indonesia to treat President Sukarno, and they diagnosed him with a serious kidney problem. Knowing that Sukarno’s time was limited, we seized the moment. With Sukarno’s assistance, the Indonesian Communist Party intensified its infiltration into the military. We believed we could manipulate half of the army, two-thirds of the air force, and one-third of the navy. The Indonesian Communist Party planned to eliminate the leaders of the anti-communist forces and have the president take over the military. Once the president passed away, the Indonesian Communist Party would seize control of the government.”

Journalist: “Oh, you planned Aidit’s power grab all on your own?”

Mao: “Yes, on September 30, 1965, Colonel Untung, a member of the presidential guard who was in collusion with the Indonesian Communist Party, arrested and executed the Army Commander and five generals. I thought it was an armed uprising. However, unbeknownst to us, one of the conspirators had secretly informed General Suharto, a military leader. Suharto swiftly took action and launched a massive crackdown on the Communist Party. The leaders of the Indonesian Communist Party were almost completely wiped out, with only one managing to escape and seek refuge in China. The Communist Party disappeared from Indonesia. This was a major setback for me.”

Journalist: “What responsibility do you pay for the end of the Indonesian Communist Party?”

Mao: “I dragged out the responsibility. Sukarno was forced to abdicate and Suharto established an anti-communist, anti-Chinese military dictatorship. I put the responsibility for the destruction of the Indonesian Communist Party on Adi, I said he made two major mistakes, the first blind faith in Sukarno, overestimated the power of the Communist Party in the army, the second was shaken, did not fight to the end. In fact, the Indonesian Communist Party which has the power to fight back. Suharto was so swift, so fierce and so brutal that the Indonesian Communist Party was powerless to resist. In fact, I was the one who advocated the risky action, and I could not wait to make a miracle and greatly increase my prestige in the Communist International. Unexpectedly, from top to bottom, hundreds of thousands of people were destroyed at once. The Chinese in Indonesia were also persecuted. China and Indonesia broke off diplomatic relations for more than ten years.”

Journalist: “Do you still write poems to Aidit?”

Mao: “Yes, in December 1965, I wrote a poem in memory of Aidit under false pretenses:
The sparse branch stands in the cold window.
Smiling in front of a hundred flowers.
But it is difficult to smile for a long time.
But the smile can not last long, but withered in spring.
It is hard to be cruel.
Why bother yourself?
The flowers will bloom in their own time.
The fragrance is waiting for the next year.”

Journalist: “Is it true that you are ‘saving the fragrance for the next year?’”

Mao: “No. 50 years have passed, the Communist Party in Indonesia, never returned, there is no trace of it.”