Chapter 26 I don’t care The Great Famine 1959-1961

Journalist: “Didn’t starvation already happen at the time you hit Peng Dehuai?”

Mao: “Yes, after the Lushan meeting against Peng Dehuai, in the autumn of 1959, many areas of the country on the report of famine and starvation, Henan first reported to me that 500 people died of starvation, I did not care did not take a position. October 1959 ‘Xinyang incident,’ Henan Xinyang area, a large number of people died of starvation, I approved to Liu Zhou to deal with. In November, An Ziwen reported that a large number of people had died of starvation in 1/3 of Henan, and there was a village in Guangshan County with more than 30 people left out of 90.”

Journalist: “Wow, serious starvation deaths are happening in large numbers, what are you going to do about it?”

Mao: “I read the report, I know in my heart is that I scraped the communist wind, pompous, high expropriation, resulting in the evil, but I must not admit that it is my fault, I have to admit my fault, how can I keep my position of power? I deliberately diverted attention to the instructions: ‘Xinyang incident is the result of counter-revolutionary power, is the class enemy rampant revenge, to make up for the thorough removal of the Kuomintang, landlord forces.’ I pointed the finger at the de facto non-existent Kuomintang forces, and the central government then issued instructions to rectify the wind and rectify the society as I instructed, to defeat the counter-revolutionary restoration, so that I was excused. The result, of course, was to aggravate the extreme leftist error.”

Journalist: “Aren’t you talking nonsense? Making up stories about the Kuomintang counter-revolution to deceive people?”

Mao: “Yes, this is how I pass the buck and divert attention. Xinyang area starved to death more than 1 million people, accounting for 13% of the total population, found a number of dead body eating, man-eating events, some villages half dead people, had to merge 2 villages into 1 village. Xixian Jiangzhai village 397 people, a few months of starvation only 90 people left. Nearby there are buried people in mass graves, buried hundreds of thousands of dead.”

Journalist: “Why don’t you save the disaster? Seeing more and more people starving to death.”

Mao: “I do not care how many people died, there are many peasants, urban food I want to hold in my hands, can not take to disaster relief, but also to export it, my Communist International mission to deal with, and then some deaths are not relevant to my big picture.

At the end of 1961, Minister of Food Chen Guodong, Minister of Statistics Jia Qiyun, and Director of the General Office of the Ministry of Food Zhou Poping, conducted a survey of starvation deaths in 3 years of disasters, counted the population of each province, and found that there were tens of millions less, reported to Zhou Enlai to show me, I said such a large number, how to spread the word? I never admitted to the outside world that there were famine and starvation deaths. Zhou Enlai said that the report should be destroyed, right? I said yes, this is the end, not to spread. He understood, immediately informed the destruction, he and I stand on the same line. It is reasonable to say that human life is at stake, starving to death regardless, is unconscionable. I was then in order to protect the power position, completely cover up the starvation death, absolutely not to spread the word.”

Journalist: “Isn’t your revolution for the workers and peasants? Now so many peasants starved to death, you can not care?”

Mao: “Life for the workers and peasants, that is the slogan when agitating the masses, in fact, the workers and peasants are only the revolutionary capital in my hands, I just use them, not for them. Starving to death is a small matter, but losing my integrity is a big matter. My festival, nominally Marxist-Leninist communism, is in fact my imperial position of power. Hundreds of millions of people in the country, are my slave people, tens of millions of dead, nothing big, die more, there is still a lot left. The most important thing is that my position of power does not waver.”

Journalist: “Do you think there are too many Chinese people, so you don’t care about tens of millions of deaths?”

Mao: “You are right. Stalin has long been too many people in China, the 1950 Sino-Soviet treaty has a secret clause 7: China’s population, due to a lack of resources, non-reduction of 100 million, can never support, the details of the method, China’s own decision. I have been worried about not coming up with a solution. I artificially created the famine, just the way to come, has not died enough 100 million, has not yet reached the goal.”

Journalist: “I heard that during the famine, you also pretended not to eat meat, right?”

Mao: “Yes, three years of famine difficulties, I said I also save some, do not eat meat. Let the newspapers propagate that the leader shares the hardships of the people and that the chairman does not eat meat anymore. I do eat less meat, but I eat more fish, I want to eat Wuchang fish, Taihu Lake fish, Qiantang River fish, transported to Beijing by special plane in winter, the price of fish according to the market price reported to me, shipping costs are included in the Central Office expenses.”

Journalist: “The outside world does not know the inside thought you are very hard and simple it?”

Mao: “Yes, I have a habit, every month, to check the previous month’s expenditure how much? Wang Dongxing gave me the account. Later I learned that Wang Dongxing gave me the accounts are false, made up to make me look easy and comfortable. Wang Dongxing said to people behind his back: reporting to the President is a big political, truthfully reported I will not live. Because truthfully add up to astronomical figures. Sewing cuffs of shirts, collars, woven woolen clothes and pants, listed 0.65 yuan, 1.5 yuan, is reported at the market price. But I specified to send Shanghai Jinjiang Hotel to mend, Wang Dongxing to take a special plane to Shanghai to do, and then by special plane to return to Beijing. The cost of this adds up to astronomical figures indeed.”

“I smoked China brand special cigarettes, a pack cost 12 yuan, but I saw in the bill was 0.56 yuan.”

Journalist: “During the Great Famine you had announced that you would not eat meat?

Mao: “Yes, I do not eat meat? The new villa in Lushan in 1960 was constructed by thousands of people day and night, and the Shaoshan Dripping Cave in 1960 was constructed by 100 million yuan at the same time, which was used to purchase food to starve 2 million people less.

Journalist: “single production package to the household yield high, good harvest, and then do not starve to death, you do not let go?”

Mao: “Yes, in 1960, Anhui peasants starved to death, Su County, a 72-year-old peasant asked the commune to the family to go to the mountains to work alone was approved, the autumn harvest that year, in addition to leaving enough food seeds and fodder, to the commune to pay grain 1800 pounds, and pay the cash from raising pigs and chickens 60 yuan, I know this report, but I just do not allow peasants to be free.

I want to always control the peasants in the hands, with me to engage in communism, freedom to work alone is good again is capitalism, I will never allow. The Soviet Union is the same, the Soviet Union 1922, 1932, 1946 three times the Great Famine, starvation death tens of millions of people, Stalin until his death, but did not let go of the peasants free, dead people do not care, I am the same, no matter how many deaths, I do not let go of communism, the peasants are free, fed, rich, will be with me to engage in communism?

Journalist: “The famine was so severe that people died of starvation, did the peasants rob food to survive?”

Mao: “There are quite a few, in 1961, a village in Henan 500 people food cut off 7 days, the party secretary Li Tongzhong and the director of the grain station (North Korean comrades), in partnership, digging away the grain station 50,000 pounds of grain to the villagers to save their lives and then surrendered. A party branch secretary in Fujian led more than 100 people to the grain depot to rob grain.”

Journalist: “In 1960 you asked to continue leapfrogging?”

Yes, in 1960, I demanded a steel production target of 22 million tons. I approached Li Fuchun and Bo Yibo, saying, “We need to mobilize 70 million people this year to continue the Great Leap Forward. In 10 years, we should aim for 100 million tons.” This marked the initiation of the second round of the “Great Leap Forward” campaign for steel production. However, as the number of starvation deaths increased in various provinces, no one had the capability to mobilize millions of people again. The issue was left unresolved and dealt with indifferently.

In 1960, I continued to give instructions to counter right-leaning tendencies. The nationwide Communist wind continued to sweep through, and the campaign to suppress right-leaning individuals intensified, leading to cases of persecution, death, and starvation. Measures were taken to prevent blind escape of people without proper residence permits. The severity of the situation surpassed even the campaign against Peng Dehuai in 1959. It is estimated that the death toll due to starvation reached 11 million, twice as many as in 1959.”