Chapter 20 The Great Leap Forward Great Disaster 1958

Journalist: “How did you get the Great Leap Forward going?”

Mao: “In November 1957, when I was still in Moscow, I personally reviewed the People’s Daily editorial ‘set off a new climax in production’ without naming Zhou Enlai to criticize the conservative, like a snail crawling, began to blow the Great Leap Forward horn.

In January 1958, I held a meeting in Nanning, the theme of the anti-adventurous, Shanghai Ke Qingshi spoke of riding the wind and waves against the adventurous, I appreciated it and questioned Zhou Enlai to his face: ‘Premier, can you write it? You are not anti-adventurous? I am anti-anti-adventurous.’ The rightists attacked and threw some comrades to about the same edge as the rightists, with only 50 meters left.; Zhou was forced to review and resign. The Nanning Conference opened the prelude to the Great Leap Forward. In my concluding speech at the conference, I said, in particular, “In the future, one person should be the core.”

Journalist: “You openly accused Zhou Enlai at the meeting? Saying that he was only 50 meters away from the right wing? You also said that the core of one of you?”

Mao: “It was February 1958, I said at the enlarged meeting of the Politburo: ‘Nanning meeting I let off a salvo, but it was a small one, Li Xiannian still can not sleep, to take sleeping pills.’ I warmed up the meeting for the anti-adventuring.

March 1958 Chengdu meeting, I again spoke against adventurism, and especially about the cult of the individual, I said: a class must worship the class leader, not worship shall not be. Tao Chuang responded on the spot: ‘To the chairman is to worship.’ Ke Qingshi responded even more: ‘We believe in the chairman, to believe to superstition, obey the chairman to obey to blind obedience.’ I felt very comfortable listening to this, my personal worship was completely restored, I was back on the throne of personal worship, I could do whatever I wanted and give orders. I first had to rectify Zhou Enlai and other anti-corruptions before I could clear the way for the Great Leap Forward. Zhou Enlai’s check draft, I also reviewed, temporarily let him pass, downgraded to use.”

The Journalist: “Oh, you talk a lot about the cult of the individual, you can do whatever you want; 1956 eight big is not against the cult of the individual?”

Mao: “I want to overthrow the 8th Congress, in May 1958, I held the 2nd Congress of the 8th Congress in Beijing, attended by more than 1,300 delegates. This is unprecedented in the history of the Communist Party. I had to hold it because I wanted to overturn the line and policy of the ‘8th Congress’ in 1956. Two years ago I was forced to agree to it by holding my nose, and in 1957 I started a counter-attack, and after the victory of the anti-rightist movement, I wanted to take advantage of the victory to launch the Great Leap Forward and recruit more than 1,300 delegates to Beijing to listen to my mobilization order. It is to reverse the line of the first conference in 1956. I want Zhou Enlai to openly review the anti-adventurous advance in public, and Liu Shaoqi also reviewed it in his report. I spoke five times in the General Assembly, a large number of anti-adventurous, change the 1956 grasp of production to meet the needs of the people is the main contradiction of the reference, I want to grasp the class struggle, I proposed to work hard, more fast and save the general line, to the Great Leap Forward.”

Journalist: “Oh, you specifically convened the 2nd Congress of the 8th Congress to overturn the line of approach of the 1st Congress?”

Mao: “Yes, Zhou Enlai, according to my instructions, to the General Assembly openly review the anti-adventurous, embracing me as the ‘representative of the truth.’ Chen Yun, Li Xiannian, Bo Yibo also made a review. After the congress, I then promoted Lin Biao to the position of chairman. I appointed five groups to direct the Great Leap Forward. Chen Yun was responsible for finance and economics, Peng Zhen for political and legal affairs, Chen Yi for foreign affairs, Nie Rongzhen for science and technology, Lu Dingyi for literature and education, and I was personally on the front line of command. Zhou Enlai was hollowed out and let him do the entertainment and run the show. I knew he was a man of conscience and could not get down to the Great Leap Forward. I re-ranked the central leadership: Mao Zedong, Liu Shaoqi, Lin Biao, Deng Xiaoping, Peng Zhen, Zhou Enlai, Zhu De, Peng Dehuai. The 3 right ones were relegated to the back. Peng Dehuai resigned as Minister of National Defense, and I retained him.”

Journalist: “Oh, you single-handedly redeployed personnel, set up the Great Leap Forward, you personally commanded the First Front?”

Mao: “Yes, I spoke at the General Assembly, on the preview to prepare a large number of dead people, I said: ‘death is a ‘white happy event,’ do not agree that death is metaphysical, people die to host a celebration. I said so, the cadres below the rules of the dead are not allowed to cry, not allowed to bring mourning. I even said that the dead still have practical value, can make fertilizer, the following buried the dead in the ground, above planting crops.”

Journalist: “You prepared the dead beforehand to make a great leap forward? The dead are used as fertilizer?”

Mao: “Yes. On June 19, 1958, I asked the Minister of Metallurgy, Wang Heshou, at the Zhongnanhai swimming pool: Is it okay to double the amount of steel this year? He said: ‘Okay. He understood that from my golden mouth,’ he hesitated or said no, immediately is the rightist side up. And so the Great Leap Forward, the Great Steelmaking, began.”

Journalist: “You gave a word to the Minister of Metallurgy, and steel doubled?”

Mao: “Yes. On June 28, 1958, I ambitiously said at a meeting of the military commission: the Pacific Ocean is not peaceful at the moment, and only when it is under our control in the future will it be considered the Pacific Ocean. Lin Biao went on to say: a few years later, we build big ships and prepare to land in Japan, San Francisco.”

Journalist: “Your ambition is to take control of the entire Pacific Ocean?”

Mao: “Yes, in August 1958, I began the Great Leap Forward special train out of the tour, August 4, the first stop to Xushui, looked at Xushui 3 years into the communist planning map, public canteen, mu yield of 10,000 jin, very encouraging. I asked the high yield of so much food, how to eat it all? Fret about not being able to handle. But afterwards, they found that they falsified, forced orders, who did not obey, scolded labor reform, arrested thousands of people, set up a labor camp, forced dozens of deaths. The problem occurred below, the root is above. If there is good from above, there will be even more from below. It turns out that I pressed out.”

Journalist: “Xushui to engage in fake communism, you pressed out?”

Mao: “Yes, Xushui by me, a big name, more than 3,000 units across the country, to learn from the experience, and more than 40 countries, more than 900 foreigners to visit. Khrushchev knew, also sent a journalist, he listened to the journalist’s report: China’s communism, drinking a large pot of clear water soup. The Soviet Union was potatoes and roast beef. By November 1958, Xushui ran out of money, could not pay the allowance, went bankrupt, and this communist pilot died.”

Journalist: “Khrushchev found that you engaged in false, is you drink a large pot of clear water soup?”

Mao: “Yes, on August 6, 1958, I went to Qiliying, Henan Province, where the country’s first people’s commune was set up, and I instructed Chen Boda to do it. The people’s commune was good, and once I raised my hand, the whole country ran a commune. The commune includes workers, peasants, merchants, academics and soldiers, managing production, life and power.”

Journalist: “Oh, the people’s commune is you sent Chen Boda to start up, became a typical promotion?”

Mao: “Yes, on August 9, 1958, I arrived in Shandong, Tan Qilong also took me to see the high-yield fields, look at my heart, I was drunk. I didn’t think it was a fake.

From August 17, 1958, I was at large in Beidaihe while holding an expanded meeting of the Politburo, and I said: The ideal of empty socialism, which we want to implement, with no money for food, housing distribution, very rich products and very noble morals, is communism. Some people said that communism is heaven, the people’s commune is a bridge, we built socialism in advance, gradually transition to communism, organization militarization, action combat, life collectivization. After my call, the country for more than a month, have listed the establishment of communes, by the end of September, the basic national communalization.”

Journalist: “After you advocated, the whole country was a commune at once?”

Mao: “Yes. In Beidaihe I talked about doubling steel, no matter what the cost, forced orders, iron-fisted policy, September is a deadly month. Speaking of insufficient raw materials, I said the Jiaodong Railway, Ningbo Railway, no longer used to remove the tracks, back to the furnace to make steel.

On August 19, 1958, I was very optimistic and told the provincial party secretaries that in the future we would have an earth management committee and a unified plan for the earth. I started the Great Leap Forward because I wanted to dominate the world. I shortened the original plan, which was completed in 10-15 years, to 3 years, but it had nothing to do with improving people’s lives, but mainly to get the military industry going. Paying loans and exporting a lot of food, improve life later. Nuclear submarines are very expensive, and Khrushchev asked how to pay for them. I said how much food the Soviet Union wanted, we exported how much. Ke Qingshi said East China can increase production by 70%, Wu Zhipu even said Henan can increase several times, I like to put satellite, I said Wu Zhipu is the number one model. They bragged and boasted, the actual crop of a few pieces of land, moved to a piece, said it was a high-yielding satellite, and organized visits around the world, and went back to the same fake, who did not do as they were criticized and dismissed.”

Journalist: “You spoke at the August 1958 Beidaihe meeting to eliminate the family, communist co-wives, the complete liberation of mankind?

Mao: “Yes, the communist common wife, the original words did not say that, the actual meaning of this. I said at the meeting, the small peasant economy is the hotbed of capitalism, to eliminate the foundation of the small peasant economy, we must eliminate the family, let the commune members live a collective life, men and women work together, live together, eat communal canteens, live in collective dormitories, the West did not scold us communist communist wife? Marx’s ‘Communist Manifesto’ already said that the communist society is to eliminate the family, eliminate the class, and eliminate the state. The liberation of all mankind is the liberation of the mind, the liberation of the body, the liberation of sex. The only way to achieve sexual liberation is the complete liberation of mankind.”

Journalist: “You said this in front of 200 people at the meeting, did you convey it downward?”

Mao: “No, Liu Shaoqi, they resisted my words, saying that it is not good to convey down the document, deleted in the transmission, Zhu De’s secretary said: the British have published a book “animal farming”, the abolition of the family, the implementation of public wives, and what is the difference between ordinary animals? In fact, the total of other people’s wives, daughters, only I can infinitely do, to total as much as a total of how much, Gao Gang when he was alive is similar, other central government officials do not dare to so openly, only secretly and individually. So I that “abolish the family, the communist common wife” the highest instructions later did not collect into the Mao 5 volumes, is aborted.”

Journalist: “Wow, you’re making a great leap forward, and your goal is to dominate the world, and you’re doing earth management and unified planning?”

Mao: “Yes, I have a big appetite. In September 1958, I said to the provincial committee: Marx and Qin Shi Huang combined. Food can not be transferred, to force the order. I gave an order, the whole country everywhere to force food, bundle hit hanging, and I also accused the grassroots level of the private share of the production of the draught.”

Journalist: “Wow, forced to order, bundled and hung, all with your tacit approval?”

Mao: “Yes, food is to force to come out. September 10, 1958, I took a special plane to Wuhan, in Wuhan to meet with Cuba Castro, Li Da inserted time to meet me, time is tight, he met and said: Runzhi, how bold people have, the land has much production, this sentence does not make sense, the subjective initiative of people, not infinite. I argued with him, he said: now people are too bold, Runzhi, you do not add fuel to the fire, or it may be a disaster. He also said to me: Runzhi, your brain is feverish now, reaching 39 degrees, and the following will be sent to 40 degrees, 41 degrees, so that the Chinese people will suffer a great disaster.”

Journalist: “Li Da dared to talk straight to advise you not to get hot-headed?”

Mao: “Yes, Hubei General Secretary Mei Bai in the side with his leg quietly touch Li Da, signaling not to offend, I found out and said: you let him say, not classified as rightist. Li Yinqiao to arrange for dinner, Li Da in a fit of rage, to say goodbye. In the car Li Da said to Mei Bai: he said Stalin thirty-seven, his own future how to open? To be honest, Li Da is the only stinging words I heard, let me sober up quite a bit, but afterwards not sober again. Li Da was in danger during the Cultural Revolution, Wang Renzhong repeatedly asked me to approve or not? I finally said, ‘Yes, but don’t kill him. But when a group of 100,000 people fought in August 1966, he fell to the ground, vomiting blood from his mouth, and was sent to the hospital, where he died in 2 days.”

Journalist: “Li Da was killed when you opened your mouth?”

Mao: “Yes, before October 1958, the people’s commune was established more than 26,000, all the means of production to the commune, the only thing peasants every day, is to listen to the command to work, military management of labor camps, I also envisaged the abolition of the name, to replace the number, Henan tried, sewn on the back of a large number, completely erased the personality of people. Members of the community were smashed at home, and could only eat in the public canteen, and were starved by withholding food if they did not work. Peasant houses were even demolished, so they had to move to the canteen to squeeze in. Liu Shaoqi went to his hometown in Hunan in early 1961 to investigate, there is a Tianhua brigade, before communalization there were more than 1,400 houses, by 1961 there were only 620 houses left.”

Journalist: “The peasants even demolished their houses to make the Great Leap Forward, and there was no place to live?”

Mao: “Yes. Zhou Enlai sent his secretary down to investigate, knowing that the following was completely forced to falsify, but he did not dare to speak. Minister of Industry and Transport Gao Yang investigated the release of satellites is a forgery, to the central government report, I saw the fury, beat him right-leaning elements, sent to Guizhou labor reform.”

Journalist: “Wow, who dares to reflect the true situation, beat him rightist to labor camp?”

Mao: “Yes, in November 1958, I told the senior leadership, the big dry water conservancy, the big steel, a lot of people out, I know will die, not half, but also to die 1/3, or 1/10, die 50 million. We agree to do, dead people, can not remove my post, kill my head.”

Journalist: “You said you were going to die first, and then put the blame down?”

Mao: “Yes, I am not responsible for the deaths. The great iron and steel, the general mobilization, doubling, by foreign furnaces can not reach, I told the clay furnace on the horse, by the end of 1958, the country reached 90 million people day and night steel, raw materials are not enough, smashed rice pots, shovels, iron doors, and even farm equipment, coal is not available, cut trees to burn. The country went crazy on steel, Song Qingling backyard, also set up a small blast furnace. By the end of the year to make up the number to double, practice out more than 4 million tons of soil iron is scrap, can be used with the soil iron 3 million tons. I said victory, to count political accounts, not economic accounts.”

Journalist: “You forced the order to refine out of the clay iron block? And say political accounts, you won?”

Mao: “Yes, I always talk about victory. 1958, large enterprises launched more than 1,600, by the end of the year, only 28 completed and put into operation, most of which were abandoned halfway, the start-up can not function properly, accidents, tens of thousands of workers died from work-related injuries. Soviet experts cautioned to follow the rules, but I encouraged to break the superstition, not a lackey. Zhou Enlai, Chen Yun had advised me in a thin voice that I was greedy for more and faster, and the aircraft, tanks, produced at any cost, were plagued by quality. I want to send Ho Chi Minh a helicopter, has been shipped to the border, but dare not send it there, afraid that Ho Chi Minh sit on it accident.”

Journalist: “You launched 90 million people to refine iron and soil, so that the agricultural bumper crop?”

Mao: “Yes, in 1958, 5% of autumn grain in Henan was abandoned in the ground without harvesting, exacerbating the famine, sweet potatoes rotted in the ground, cotton was blown all over the sky by the autumn wind, abundant production without a good harvest, all went to the great iron and steel, no one care to collect.

In the past years of bumper crops in Sichuan Dujiangyan, 1961 grain production are less than half of 1957.”

Journalist: “You are forced to brute force, the result is all scrap?”

Mao: “Yes, according to government statistics, 1958 waste loss of 120 billion yuan, the total investment in the 5-year plan is 55 billion yuan, a year of the money wasted 2 5-year plan.”

Journalist: “Wow, 1 year of your Great Leap Forward, you wasted 10 years of construction money?”

Mao: “Yes, from the Zhengzhou meeting in November 1958, I proposed to correct the left, I was forced to come back to reality, say something close to common sense, admit some mistakes to comfort the cadres. The aim was to take one step back and 3 steps forward. To move forward, take a little step back. But emphasize that mistakes are one finger and achievements are 9 fingers. Some people say that the mistakes are so big, why do they still say one finger? Read my speech to the International Communist Congress in Moscow in November 1957 and it becomes clear. My big goal is to lead the socialist camp, to be the world communist king, to beat imperialism, to socialize globally, and then to talk about construction and people’s lives. Until then, all sacrifices, are necessary. I don’t care how many people die and how much is wasted.”

Journalist: “You launched the Great Leap Forward, which led to a famine that killed tens of millions of people, how do you see it?

Mao: “At the beginning of the Great Leap Forward in 1958, I launched 90 million people into the mountains to make iron and steel, to develop water conservancy, and to launch satellites, and I foresaw that people would die in the day and night battle. I didn’t care about the deaths, and I didn’t allow any disaster relief, and I didn’t allow any exodus, and I let the peasants die in their villages. I kept a blockade on the outside world, and I told foreign guests that there was no famine in China and no starvation.”

Journalist: “You disregarded the people’s disasters in order to become the world’s communist king?”

Mao: “Yes, the problems of the Great Leap Forward, the losses, the deaths, in my opinion, are all just a matter of a finger compared to my big goal, my 9-finger big goal, which is correct. I plan to reach my big goal and die half of the people. Tens of millions of people died in the Great Leap Forward, which is still a small number, so I say it belongs to one finger. Foreigners say I am a war monger, communist madman, which is good, I frankly admit that to reach the goal is to go crazy.”

Journalist: “In 1958 you engaged in purges and anti-rightist remedial classes again?”

Mao: “Yes, in 1958 the entire population purged, arresting and fighting indiscriminately, fighting 2 million people nationwide, arresting 200,000 and killing 20,000. In 1958, the company’s main goal was to make up for the rightist’s mistakes, and in 1958, it was also to stop the white flags, the rich and the poor, and the grey ones.”

Journalist: “Oh, you admit you’re crazy?”