Zhong Wen: For the “Ricci theme,” the Reformation is absolutely essential. Francis A. Schaeffer (1912–1984) argued in Escape From Reason (1968) that the Reformation and the Renaissance overlapped. “Calvin was born in 1509, and the first edition of his Institutes of the Christian Religion was written in 1536. Leonardo da Vinci died in 1519, the same year as Luther’s (1483–1546) ‘Leipzig Debate.’ It was Francis I of France—the very man who invited Leonardo to end his days in France—to whom Calvin dedicated the Institutes. Therefore we find a linkage between the Renaissance and the Reformation.”

Bo Ya: The Reformation was initiated by Northern Europeans, while the Renaissance was initiated by Southern Europeans—this geographical distinction should not be ignored. It had a huge influence on the religious wars that followed.

Zhong Wen: But the ideals pursued by the Reformation and the Renaissance were also quite similar. Francis Schaeffer believed that “although both movements dealt with the same fundamental issues, the answers they offered were different, and therefore the results were completely different.”

The two movements once joined forces to resist the despotism of the Roman Catholic Church, but later split at the height of the Reformation, in 1525.

Toward the end of the Middle Ages, as non-Christian ideas infiltrated the church, an opposite movement gradually emerged within medieval Christianity. Its forerunners were John Wycliffe (c. 1320–1384) and John Huss (1369–1415), contemporaries of Renaissance figures like Giotto, Petrarch, and Boccaccio. Wycliffe and Huss upheld “the supreme authority of Scripture.” In Huss’s time, “humanism had already crept into the Church, raising church authority to equal—or even sometimes above—the Bible, and emphasizing merit as a means of obtaining Christ’s redemption. Huss stood against these tendencies” (Schaeffer, Back to Freedom and Dignity). Huss insisted that “only through the redeeming work of Christ can a person return to God.”

Bo Ya: The strange thing is that we are all carbon-based life forms. Some say, “The Reformation released a brand-new spirit from the decay of the late Middle Ages. It allowed the life renewal sought by the Renaissance to be truly realized. Will China one day witness such a sunrise?”—I find this claim rather laughable. It lacks any understanding of human depravity and ignores the baseness and brutality of the religious wars.

Zhong Wen: Why do you say that?

Bo Ya: In theory, the core of the Renaissance worldview was to revive the glories of ancient culture and marginalize medieval thought. Its intellectual mainstream is called “humanism,” a movement in cultural and educational fields. In one slogan: Return to the sources. It meant returning to the cultural origins of ancient Rome and Athens.

In theology, its counterpart was to return directly to the foundational sources of Christian theology—primarily the New Testament. Applied to the Church, this meant: return to Scripture, return to the Church Fathers, return to study in the original languages.

Because of this return to the Bible and the pursuit of faith, devout believers sensed that renewal and reform of the Church had become necessary. “Returning to Scripture” had already been emphasized by scholastics like Peter Abelard and Thomas Aquinas in the 12th century. From a religious perspective, the Church itself was the first to begin a “Renaissance.” But confronted with rising humanism, the repeated failures of the eight or nine Crusades (as well as numerous minor expeditions), people began to reflect—particularly on the corruption produced by the Church’s secular power…

Zhong Wen: People often say that the leaders of the Reformation were humanists. As the Catholic Church became increasingly institutionalized and corrupt, and as disagreements on certain doctrines deepened, calls for reform grew louder and louder. The Reformation was not merely a reform of Church practice but triggered a comprehensive spiritual crisis. This crisis shook the foundations of Christendom because the Reformers’ theology entailed a complete re-evaluation of authority, the origins of knowledge, and methods of thought. Yet the arguments and language used by their opponents were themselves rooted in medieval theology. Sharing the same origin made it difficult for Protestantism to develop in complete independence—whether in doctrine or in ecclesiastical structure.

Bo Ya: But were these changes really good?

Zhong Wen: At the early stage of the Reformation, Erasmus (1466–1536) wrote On the Freedom of the Will (1524), and exchanged letters with Martin Luther, criticizing him. Erasmus disapproved of Luther’s “splitting the Church,” while also criticizing many issues within Catholicism. As a result, he pleased neither side and was attacked by both Catholics and Protestants. But years later, people gradually recognized that many of Erasmus’s ideas were grounded in truth.

Bo Ya: But in fact, this “dual critique” was the correct stance. I believe Luther used the banner of “justification by faith” for personal ends; this is deeply objectionable.

In response to the Protestant Reformation, the Catholic Church also launched its own reforms.

In 1527, Spanish and German mercenaries launched a violent assault on Rome, and Pope Clement VII was imprisoned for half a year. Many saw the Sack of Rome as divine punishment. Pope Paul III (r. 1534–1549) then awakened to the need for reform. Major Catholic reforms included:

Cleansing corrupt clergy and enforcing clerical celibacy.

Establishing schools in every diocese to raise clerical education.

Abolishing the institutions selling indulgences, while affirming the legitimacy of indulgences themselves.

Publishing large numbers of previously banned books.

These reforms helped renew the Church internally, removed unqualified clergy, and curbed abuses such as indulgence-selling and relic worship.

Zhong Wen: In Rome there was a unique noble fellowship, the “Oratory of Divine Love,” formed by sixty Catholic leaders committed to worship and mutual support. Their guiding principle was that church and social reform must begin with the renewal of each individual soul. This fellowship produced some of the most remarkable leaders of the Roman Church.

When the Roman Curia realized the seriousness of the Protestant revolt, it called these leaders and spiritual warriors to convene a new, militant ecumenical council. Despite losing nearly half of Europe to Protestantism, the Church succeeded in halting further Protestant advance. By the late 16th century, Protestantism remained confined to about one-third of Europe—just as it is today.

Bo Ya: Catholicism has a thousand-year tradition of religious orders and monasticism. Some describe the orders as “the hidden Church,” in contrast to the visible and powerful institutional Church. From the Desert Fathers onward, the orders preserved deep spiritual traditions. Usually living quietly, they often played crucial roles in moments of crisis.

Zhong Wen: In 1521, Ignatius of Loyola (1491–1556) experienced spiritual rebirth at Manresa and developed a program of spiritual formation—a “military manual” for serving the pope. In 1540 Pope Paul III approved the founding of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits. Loyola, after seven years of study at the University of Paris, became “Master Ignatius,” gathered his first lifelong companions, and shared with them the Spiritual Exercises, which became the foundational text for every Jesuit. Later Catholic contemplative methods were incorporated into it. This program eventually became the renowned Jesuit intellectual project, which distributed massive amounts of work in classical literature, humanities, and science.

Bo Ya: Luther was originally a Catholic monk, but he broke his vows to get married and even split the Church in order to free himself from those vows, yet tried to portray himself as a noble savior figure—this was deeply immoral.

Zhong Wen: Loyola believed that human beings have the ability to choose between God and Satan. Through disciplined training of their limited imagination, a person could strengthen the will and choose God’s path. Loyola firmly believed that the living Christ resides only within the institutional Church; therefore everything must submit to Rome. He expected Jesuits to “become all things to all people,” the soldiers of Christ. Under his leadership, the first generation of Jesuits quickly took on their mission: converting unbelievers and winning back Protestants. By Loyola’s death in 1556, the order had nearly a thousand members, with missionaries sent to four continents.

In education, the Catholic reforms achieved extraordinary results: beyond the Bible, theology, and deep spiritual disciplines, the Jesuits developed extensive studies in classical literature, humanities, and the sciences. By 1640, Europe had 518 Catholic seminaries. Today Catholic education has produced many creative models for teaching children, women, and for cultural and missionary education.

In missions, during the two centuries after the Reformation, Protestantism was busy building its doctrinal systems and fell into a new scholasticism, while the Catholic Church entered a golden age of global missions. “What was lost in Europe was regained around the world” became the rallying cry of countless Catholic missionaries, who went out with passion, piety, and disciplined training. Protestant global missions would not begin until the early 19th century, influenced by 18th-century evangelical revivals.

Under papal commission, the kings of Spain and Portugal took responsibility for evangelizing the newly conquered territories. Spanish adventurers carried Crusader qualities—equally fervent, noble, and superstitious. They destroyed indigenous idols. Bartolomé de las Casas, champion of the oppressed, argued that the Indians possessed equal rights and freedoms, preaching the gospel peacefully and modeling a holy life.

Bo Ya: I doubt Loyola’s claim that one can “strengthen the will through training the imagination and choose God’s path.” The enormous number of sexual abuse and violence cases committed by Catholic clergy shows that humans cannot attain salvation through “training.”

Zhong Wen: Perhaps the missionaries of Ricci’s era were different. In 1542 Loyola’s companion Francis Xavier went to the Far East—first India (Goa), then the Malay Peninsula, and two years later Japan. His years in Japan changed his missionary thinking. By the late 16th century, Japan had 300,000 converts, hundreds of churches, and two Christian colleges. Nagasaki became the “city of believers.” But between 1614 and 1642, 4,045 martyrs bore witness to Christ.

Matteo Ricci obtained residence in Zhaoqing, Guangdong in 1583, entered Beijing in 1600, and converted many elite families. By the time of his death in 1610, there were already 2,000 believers. His successor Johann Adam Schall von Bell established the first public church in Beijing in 1650 and secured religious freedom for Christians in 1657. By his death in 1666, China had 270,000 Christians. In 1692 the emperor issued an Edict of Toleration allowing free Catholic mission work; however, the Rites Controversy later plunged the entire mission effort into a century-long decline.

Bo Ya: The debate between accommodationist and confrontational mission strategies continues even today. In a sense, the era of global expansion was unique—while opening vast regions of the world to the Christian message, it also produced some of the most revolutionary and creative missionaries in history.

Zhong Wen: The Council of Trent (1545–1563) was the Catholic Church’s great council to counter the Reformation, held intermittently in Trent (in northern Italy). After two recesses, it closed in December 1563—lasting 18 years, with about 4 years and 3 months of actual sessions.

Under Jesuit influence, the Council became a powerful weapon of the Counter-Reformation. Many Protestant delegates attended its second phase, but nothing resulted. Throughout, the Council reflected Rome’s new militant posture. It forcefully rejected every major Protestant teaching, reaffirming Catholic doctrine on justification, the sacraments, and more.

Bo Ya: I see this as a desperate counterattack from the Catholic camp. During the Reformation, both Catholics and Protestants believed they represented the true universal Christian Church and that the other side was the enemy of God. In the first stage, confrontation led to stalemate. In the second, people were forced—emotionally and intellectually—to admit that neither side was the sole representative of the Christian Church; both were legitimate presences. The third stage, religious tolerance, rested on accepting religious diversity within a nation. Before 1600, such tolerance existed only among mystics, humanists like Erasmus, radical Anabaptists, and shrewd politicians like Elizabeth I.

Zhong Wen: The Thirty Years’ War (1618–1648), a brutal continent-wide conflict of power and religion, followed. In the end, Catholic territories gained nothing, and Protestant territories gained nothing. This war marked the transition from the Reformation era to the Age of Reason. After such futile destruction, religious zeal cooled, giving way to denominationalism. A secular society separating church and state rapidly approached.

Bo Ya: “Five hundred years of Catholic reform”—many assume that after the Reformation, “history becomes the history of Protestantism.” In reality, Catholicism also grew, developed, and underwent divine work and internal reforms over these five centuries. In my view, the Reformation was mutually defining. Both sides had merits and faults. The fair judgment is: each deserves fifty lashes.